Ravenwing

[jaqenhgar]

Don't forget the Scouting or Outflank as well, Bikes are super quick, but lack durability, but the list looks wicked!

Thanks mate Hoping the MSU will help with durability a bit, can combat squad the 6 man bike squads if not KP's for a total of 11 separate scoring units and up to 9 units in reserve (outflank or normal)

[manrogue]

Will have to play you against this list Chris, looks a really fun list to play against!

[Embolden]

Will have to play you against this list Chris, looks a really fun list to play against!

Definitely!

[jaqenhgar]

Sounds good guys!

[smallpoxeldar]

Looking good cant wait to see what turns out from more matches Chris, I was wondering about the libarian too.

[jaqenhgar]

so had my first games with the new codex ravenwing with this list:

HQ
Sammael - corvex (200)
RW command squad - 5 bikes, apoth, Standard of Devastation, 1 g.launcher (295)
Int Chap. - bike, auspex (135) (warlord)

Troops
RAS - 6bikes, 2 meltaguns, attack bike - mm, landspeeder typhoon with heavy bolter (311)
RAS - 6bikes, 2 plasmaguns, attack bike - mm, landspeeder typhoon with heavy bolter (321)
RAS - 6bikes, 2 flamers, attack bike - mm, landspeeder typhoon with heavy bolter (301)
RAS - 3bikes, 2 meltaguns, attack bike - mm (155)

Fast Attack
3 Black Knights - 1 grenade launcher, meltabombs (131)

1849pts

was playing nicks grey knights/blood angels. The list worked well, I used movement early on to focus my force against part of nicks force. I was able to stay out of the grey knights nasty 24" range shooting for the most part and get the first shots against him due to speed. The dakka banner was good first game but didn't really get to shine the second game. Both games the command squad got caught out and charged, and annihilated by the death company or termies, so I possibly could play them better. Not sure the Chaplain is worth it though, but perhaps that was just my playing and he'd be better against a different foe.

Black knights were great with their plasma talons. the rad grenades i think will be situational so may drop the no. of them to 1. Outflanking attack bikes were great. landspeeders were ok, again vs different enemy (horde) they might perform better, but they are so fragile.

Only combat punch in the army is the command squad which can be brutal if it gets the charge but is also the main target due to the banner. Might rethink this a bit.

Great to get the bikes out! maybe I shall convert a biker librarian...

[Simian]

Biker Libby is the way to go.

problem i find with ravenwing is despite the extra toughness they're still just 3-6 man squads of 3+ save marines, so for every wound you have a 1/3 chance of dying and any death takes away a significant percentage of your squad. this is especially true for the command squad. (max 5 models) they're small squads without the resiliency of the terminator.

here's some numbers for you,
20 shots at your bikers BS4 Str 4 AP5 will, on average kill, 1.5 bikers
20 shots at terminators BS4 Str 4 AP5 will, on average kill, 1 terminator.

if you assume the worst you will lose a unit of ravenwing in 3-4 turns. your terminator squad will last till turn 5. yes you pay more for the terminators but they have other advantages. No terrain checks, stronger weapons in CC, more shots at longer range etc. the speed is they biggest benefit and getting used to it is very difficult and something im crap at.

this is one of the reason im more in favour of a dualwing or triwing list. Dark angels work best when all three sections are used.

[jaqenhgar]

but the standard bikes only cost 27pts each as opposed to 44pts each for termies, plus they are most vulnerable to small arms fire, which usually is sort-ish ranged (24") excepting tau... so speed to keep them out of range is good, until opponent seizes mid table then it is hard to do.

[jaqenhgar]

So after the first league game against Sam I am happy with my list so far, still a lot to learn on how to play them because I made a few mistakes. I changed the HQ to Azrael since I thought Sammael doesn't add that much. Azrael still allows Ravenwing as troops but he has to go somewhere other than a bike squad. I was thinking a landraider crusader with a command squad or a drop pod but settled on the latter as I felt the LRC could be one-shotted too easily and the drop pod gives some nice options:

HQ
Azrael (215)
Librarian - combi-plasma, terminator armour (101)
Deathwing command squad - apoth, banner of dev., 3 th+ss, champ with halberd (360)

Troops
RAS - 3bikes, 2 meltaguns, attack bike - mm (155)
RAS - 3bikes, 2 meltaguns, attack bike - mm (155)
RAS - 3bikes, 2 meltaguns, attack bike - mm (155)
RAS - 3bikes, 2 flamers, attack bike - mm (145)
RAS - 3bikes, 2 plasmaguns, attack bike - mm (165)
Taactical Squad - 9 marines, drop pod, plasmagun, combi-plasma (186)

Fast Attack
5 Black Knights - 1 grenade launcher (210)

1849pts

The Deathwing squad drops turn 1 which is an improvement on the ravenwing squad because a) it frees up the black knights to outflank instead of nursing the banner, and b) kepps the banner unit off the table if opponent gets turn 1 so it can't be targeted. I can also drop it precisely where I want it near my bikes and it is a massive combat threat (unless you're a daemon prince...).

The list is fast, has 2 or 3 combat threats (DW command, Black knights, Azzy and unit at a pinch), lots of dakka (banner and tl relentless bolters) lots of scoring units (11) and lots of AP2 and anti-tank (although short-ranged).

Sam's daemon prince chewed through 2/5ths of my army (!) because I dropped azzy and his squad too close and they got charged. DW counter-charged and by the time i got to swing there was just azzy and 1 terminator left...gulp! Must remember to shoot this thing next time!

Bikes were great, need to remember precision shots with my serge's which i forgot all game, and the black knights were awesome and single-handedly took on Sams entire firebase on their own (EDIT - with the help of a lone flamer bike who gets promoted for toasting a lot of the enemy) - might think about taking two of these units in future, but not sure what to drop to get them in...

Happy with Azrael even though he didn't get to shine. He made the tac squad a lot more durable so Sam had to throw a lot more at them to take them out, and picks his own warlord trait (i took reserve roll manipulation).

Taking a 1750pt version of the list to a small tournament in Colchester at the weekend so we'll see how it does there...last time I went there were a lot of fliers...

[Simian]

sounds like most aspects went well. If/When i switch my list i think i'll be bringing the black knights back in. they nearly always made up their points cost.