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Warhammer: Age of Sigmar
#21
Are the rules I've seen on the internet about having a bigger beard giving you a re-roll or dancing while rolling dice and shouting WAAAAGH at the top of your voice also give you re-rolls... :\

Interesting concept of zero pts values... I think they could be onto something with that, but I'm no fantasy player and it will be interesting to see what they do with that. The negative backlash was ALWAYS going to happen, as it does happen with every new release of any edition/codex.

Does anyone at the club have the new game/new rules?? What do they make of it?




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#22
(07-07-2015, 03:10 PM)Embolden Wrote: Are the rules I've seen on the internet about having a bigger beard giving you a re-roll or dancing while rolling dice and shouting WAAAAGH at the top of your voice also give you re-rolls... :\

Interesting concept of zero pts values... I think they could be onto something with that, but I'm no fantasy player and it will be interesting to see what they do with that. The negative backlash was ALWAYS going to happen, as it does happen with every new release of any edition/codex.

Does anyone at the club have the new game/new rules?? What do they make of it?

Yes those rules on shouting etc are correct.

The rules are free online and i've read then, i'll be honest, they look crap, full of holes and no element of it interests me in the slightest. The plan seems to be to use it as a scenario based game only which to my mind limits its appeal even more than it was before. at least the old WFB had the fluff, this has nothing
Simian aka Ben
Interests
40k (all things nurgle), Malifaux (Guild, Gremlins & Ressers), In Her Majesties Name (Professor Berengei's Circus), Bolt Action (Big Red One), WFB (Dwarfs), Dredd (Robots), OGaM, Necromunda (Redemptionists)

Hooting into the Abyss
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#23
Well I am glad there is no like for like replacement system.

The whole idea of another edition meant I had basically knocked fantasy on the head and was only going to play 8th edition going forward, if anyone ever fancied a game.
I also got hold of an expensive 3rd edition rulebook to play 'Oldhammer'. As 3rd edition was a lot more open-minded, so you could be more narrative and (if I recall) have units that 'don't exist', like dwarves armed with spears... Quite a following of Oldhammerers out there.

So... well done GW... Now I can enjoy 'collecting' the old stuff :-) and maybe running some more narrative games, campaigns, etc...
History is written by the victors - Sir Winston Churchill
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#24
Yeah just read your mates review. I'm not a fantasy player and so all I can say is good luck and I hope 40k doesn't go down this route.




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#25
(07-07-2015, 04:55 PM)Agincourt Wrote: Well I am glad there is no like for like replacement system.

The whole idea of another edition meant I had basically knocked fantasy on the head and was only going to play 8th edition going forward, if anyone ever fancied a game.
I also got hold of an expensive 3rd edition rulebook to play 'Oldhammer'. As 3rd edition was a lot more open-minded, so you could be more narrative and (if I recall) have units that 'don't exist', like dwarves armed with spears... Quite a following of Oldhammerers out there.

So... well done GW... Now I can enjoy 'collecting' the old stuff :-) and maybe running some more narrative games, campaigns, etc...

Would be interested in having a game of 3rd sometime and see how it compares to 8th
40K - Dark Angels, Dark Eldar, Necrons; Lord of the Rings - lots; Bloodbowl - Dwarves, Wood Elves; SAGA - Anglo Danes & Welsh; Guildball - Morticians, Engineers; Dropzone/fleet - Shaltari
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#26
Tuomas Pirinen (former GW staffer, designer of Mordheim) has shared his take on Age of Sigmar:

https://www.facebook.com/DesignbyTuomasP...0038223421

Quote:WARHAMMER AGE OF SIGMAR -PRODUCT DECONSTRUCTION

OK, there is no way I can skip this, I've been buried with requests to write what I think about the new Warhammer: Age of Sigmar rules. Better get on with it then.
Disclaimer: all the thoughts and opinions here are my own, and do not reflect the official line of Games Workshop in any way, shape or form. I've not worked for GW in over a decade. I reserve the right to be completely wrong about this.

OVERVIEW AND PRODUCT STRATEGY

I've spent a fair amount of time reading the rules for Warhammer: the Age of Sigmar, and the associated War Scrolls, and I've gone through the miniatures range and the background.

Key takeaways: Free, much streamlined rules with visually stunning (if 40K-ish) models that are very expensive speaks to me of a strategy: with these rules, many more new people can try the game and grasp the rules rapidly. Some of those will like the game, and a portion will be able to afford the cost associated with it, and without points limits on the armies, they can spend as little or as much as they wish on the game.

I see that the new miniature range will attract many collectors, and perhaps a fewer gamers -possibly a valid approach, business-wise.

All in all this targets a very particular kind of consumer: Wealthy, social, and focused on collectability of very high-quality designs -very much the Apple tactic. It is a huge gamble to see if this is new direction works. It may also be that a completely new world will allow GW to target a new breed of gamers not exposed to Warhammer before.

To understand the shift in the game it is important to see that many things are in play here that your average hobbyist does not need to care about: the shelf space in the shops (Warhammer always took massive amount of space), the spiralling cost associated with making a physical product, the intense competition from both physical and digital games and the rise of 3D printing in the near future.

MINIATURES

When it comes to miniature sculpting, the rigid unit hierarchy of classic Warhammer limits them, which was always problem when compared to 40K. Thus I am not surprised to see the round bases and much larger models with far more articulation. They are eye-catching and have been made with collectability in mind. They also are so complex that the immediate danger of 3D printing will have been averted at least for a while.

Overall, many of the miniatures are stunningly well made, and I doubt another company can match the sheer intricate detail of these anytime soon. Whatever people like the designs themselves is another matter, but they do that that modern western design vibe. As always, a matter of taste.

THE RULES

The rules themselves have some very nifty ideas, and I am happy that some of the show real creativity and opportunities for interesting situations during game. I do like some of the risk/reward elements such as the charging rules. Some I do not understand, like gaining a major bonus if you won your previous match whenever that may have been. This sets off the game skewered towards one side.

In general, the new rules are streamlined, short, easy-to-absorb and will lead into quite straightforward games. Without tactical maneuvering and flank/back bonuses, the games will most likely become immense killing grounds in the middle, with one side completely wiped out, and the result having a lot to do with luck. I also see some worrying opportunities for cheating, especially with customizing models for extra reach. But I honestly also see a lot of opportunity for fun and tense moments too, in a casual gaming sort of way.

And those dreaded dancing rules... I am personally not a designer that likes to enforce the players to dance, sing or shout during a game: many gamers are introverted, or have disabilities or health conditions that do not allow them to perform a cha-cha-cha moves in the middle of the game. I see the wish to make Warhammer more social, but I would not have gone this way myself: rather, I would have given the players other rewards than game bonuses for awkward behavior.

All in all, the rules are simplified, streamlined, and clearly aimed at getting as many new people as possible to try out the rules.

THE WARHAMMER WORLD

I am of course sad to see Warhammer world go, as it was a labor of love for so many people for so many years, including me. It is one of the most iconic and enduring fantasy worlds ever created. But I do see some of the logic: the Warhammer world was complete, and a low-fantasy world. In order to bring more fantastical creatures and new armies (without making it impossible to fit all the new models into the Warhammer shops) a clean slate was the easy way forward. Personally hard for me to see, but if the gamble pays off it might well be worth it for GW.

I also hazard a guess that there will be a more advanced ruleset for more tactical and strategic players who have outgrown the 4-page rules. I especially think we will see supplements for magic. Without any further rules development, I am not sure about the longevity of the game. Easy-to-pick-up, difficult-to-master is the Holy Grail of the game design, and I am not quite sure these rules are there yet. To keep customers returning, games need long-term engagement, and that requires more depth to delve into. I think we will see this in the coming months.

CLOSING THOUGHTS

As always, I wish GW and its staff the greatest of success -the livelihood of many families depends on It. Many fantastically talented people work at the Studio and beyond whom I respect more than words can say. I see Age of Sigmar as a huge gamble, and it will be interesting to see if it pays off. I also feel that it may have been a gamble they had to take in one form or another. We might see a smaller playerbase, but very lucrative one to emerge from these rules and miniatures.

Lastly, I want to say this. If you enjoy the new rules and models, hold your head up high: every gamer has the right to like whatever they damn well please. But respect the old guard, they built the hobby into what it is today.

If you don't like the rules, I absolutely get it. Please don't take it out on the people that do like them. As gamers we've never had as much choice and quality to choose from. when it comes to our gaming.

Thoughtful critique and discussion wins over bitterness every time.
Figures painted in 2016: 4 Blush
"What this game needs is a panda with a chaingun."
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#27
Great article.

I am worried about the fact he mentions "gamble" about 5 times haha, this is a step or I'd even go as far to say a leap into the unknown for GW. I hope it pays off. But Warhammer was iconic to GW and to effectively bin it over night and start again is a huge risk. But shows GW is willing to change things and embrace new ideas and try to compete with the up and coming companies that are taking consumers away.




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#28
Some of that also resonates with what Rick Priestly was saying a few weeks ago:

Quote:...but betting the company on the assumption that the market is primarily collectors and not gamers is a big gamble isn’t it! In the short term it will work because so many gamers are loyal to the backgrounds and to what is left of the games range (that’ll be 40K then). The large, very nicely done, collectors style pieces generate good sales at high margins. I would expect to see an improvement in full year performance under their new CEO – and maybe even a dividend! Long term though… if GW is sincere about changing its market stance (and does not lose its bottle and start to back track – which is still possible) it opens up the market to any number of new companies that are interested in games, gaming and gamers! That won’t do GW any harm so long as they are determined to abandon that market – and it would leave them to concentrate on a mixture of high price highly profitable collectibles and licensing its IP out into other media – always something I felt was under exploited due to fear of losing control at the top of the business. But what do I knowSmile
Figures painted in 2016: 4 Blush
"What this game needs is a panda with a chaingun."
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#29
Problem is those companies are prong out either great rules, cheap miniatures or both, and sometimes great miniatures but with low numbers needed (ie guildball) whereas the age of sigma r rules are imo very poor and the minis are expensive and you still need lots of them to play.
40K - Dark Angels, Dark Eldar, Necrons; Lord of the Rings - lots; Bloodbowl - Dwarves, Wood Elves; SAGA - Anglo Danes & Welsh; Guildball - Morticians, Engineers; Dropzone/fleet - Shaltari
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#30
(08-07-2015, 07:40 AM)jaqenhgar Wrote:
(07-07-2015, 04:55 PM)Agincourt Wrote: Well I am glad there is no like for like replacement system.

The whole idea of another edition meant I had basically knocked fantasy on the head and was only going to play 8th edition going forward, if anyone ever fancied a game.
I also got hold of an expensive 3rd edition rulebook to play 'Oldhammer'. As 3rd edition was a lot more open-minded, so you could be more narrative and (if I recall) have units that 'don't exist', like dwarves armed with spears... Quite a following of Oldhammerers out there.

So... well done GW... Now I can enjoy 'collecting' the old stuff :-) and maybe running some more narrative games, campaigns, etc...

Would be interested in having a game of 3rd sometime and see how it compares to 8th

Cool... Will sort something out...
History is written by the victors - Sir Winston Churchill
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