Dropzone list/shoptalk thread

[will]

I'm thinking of heading towards the below list for my force. Mostly based on what I've already bought off ebay with a plastic starter box added in to make a legal force, a FM (because who can turn down a stealth cruise missile), and some sirens with a dropship. I've yet to buy the stater army box yet or the sirens. I'm pretty sure I will not have enough AA but it can't be helped as I'm being cheap :/

(NB I used Battlescribe, the data file is here
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2w5qqrfze6mhmd...S.bsr?dl=0
Has a few errors here and there but works good enough.
Not my work got it from the hawk war games forum
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6841)


+++ Phr (1491pts) +++

++ PHR (Clash (1000-1999)) (1491pts) ++

+ Clash (1371pts) +

Armour © (290pts)
··Battle Pantheon
····Standard Squad [Neptune]
······Type 1 [Phobos]
······Type 1 [Phobos]
····Standard Squad [Neptune]
······Type 1 [Ares]
······Type 1 [Ares]

Fleet © (135pts)
··Fleet Air Wing
····Athena Air Superiority Fighter Squadron [Athena Air Superiority Fighter]

HQ © (498pts)
··Command
····Zeus Squadron [Neptune]
······Type 2 [Zeus]
······Type 2 [Zeus]
··Exotic
····Siren Corps (2 bases)
······Triton A1 [Twin RX-20 Minigun*, Twin Stealth Missile Battery*]
··Scout
····Janus Scout Walker Squadron [4x Janus]
······Triton A2 [Twin RX-20 Minigun*, Twin Stealth Missile Battery*]
······Triton A2 [Twin RX-20 Minigun*, Twin Stealth Missile Battery*]

Infantry © (224pts)
··Neptune (Shared) [Neptune]
··Troops [2x Immortals]
····Juno IFV [Juno IFV A1]
··Troops [2x Immortals]
····Juno IFV [Juno IFV A1]

Infantry © (224pts)
··Neptune (Shared) [Neptune]
··Troops [2x Immortals]
····Juno IFV [Juno IFV A1]
··Troops [2x Immortals]
····Juno IFV [Juno IFV A1]

+ Commander © (120pts) +

Commanders © (120pts) [Grand Vizier]

[scoundrel13]

I'm thinking of heading towards the below list for my force. Mostly based on what I've already bought off ebay with a plastic starter box added in to make a legal force, a FM (because who can turn down a stealth cruise missile), and some sirens with a dropship. I've yet to buy the stater army box yet or the sirens. I'm pretty sure I will not have enough AA but it can't be helped as I'm being cheap :/

(NB I used Battlescribe, the data file is here
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2w5qqrfze6mhmd...S.bsr?dl=0
Has a few errors here and there but works good enough.
Not my work got it from the hawk war games forum
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6841)


+++ Phr (1491pts) +++

++ PHR (Clash (1000-1999)) (1491pts) ++

+ Clash (1371pts) +

Armour © (290pts)
··Battle Pantheon
····Standard Squad [Neptune]
······Type 1 [Phobos]
······Type 1 [Phobos]
····Standard Squad [Neptune]
······Type 1 [Ares]
······Type 1 [Ares]

Fleet © (135pts)
··Fleet Air Wing
····Athena Air Superiority Fighter Squadron [Athena Air Superiority Fighter]

HQ © (498pts)
··Command
····Zeus Squadron [Neptune]
······Type 2 [Zeus]
······Type 2 [Zeus]
··Exotic
····Siren Corps (2 bases)
······Triton A1 [Twin RX-20 Minigun*, Twin Stealth Missile Battery*]
··Scout
····Janus Scout Walker Squadron [4x Janus]
······Triton A2 [Twin RX-20 Minigun*, Twin Stealth Missile Battery*]
······Triton A2 [Twin RX-20 Minigun*, Twin Stealth Missile Battery*]

Infantry © (224pts)
··Neptune (Shared) [Neptune]
··Troops [2x Immortals]
····Juno IFV [Juno IFV A1]
··Troops [2x Immortals]
····Juno IFV [Juno IFV A1]

Infantry © (224pts)
··Neptune (Shared) [Neptune]
··Troops [2x Immortals]
····Juno IFV [Juno IFV A1]
··Troops [2x Immortals]
····Juno IFV [Juno IFV A1]

+ Commander © (120pts) +

Commanders © (120pts) [Grand Vizier]

Looks nicely balanced, a good starting PHR list. You say light on AA, but Phobos are pretty hard to neutralise with 2DP and Armour 9, as well as the fact that the Athena is one of the best FMs in the game, which can mow down a dropship with ease. The Jani will give you command radius, which combined with CV5 commander and that nasty PHR command deck, will make for great control of the battlefield. Two Zeus with 3+ Passive saves will be horribly difficult to bring down as well.

[jaqenhgar]

Looks good Will! Those Sirens are nasty in a cqb, with a 2+ dodge save. would probably beat my firstborns although they might give them a run for there money if i got lucky. You have a fair amount of AA with the scout walkers and the FM and Phobos's - don't forget the immortals can shoot dropships that stray too close as well. I'd say you have as much as I do in my list (1FM, infantry, dedicated AA unit and the Jaguars AA fire) - we shall find out if it's enough!

My concerens are that your Triton's have max upgrades on a dp1 dropship, and they need to get within 12" to shoot - pts could be spent on something else at a later date maybe.

Against Shaltari and Scourge you have a LOT of E7 shots so pretty good anti armour but you may find you struggle against UCM with their armour 10 - I count only 4 E11 shots plus the two missiles from the Ares unless I am missing something.

However, I think many games are not necessarily won by simply destroying the enemy as we learnt in that game last week where you won but had very little left!

[will]

Yeah your right Chris there not a lot of specialist AT in my list but that what I do have is quite durable plus all the stealth missile batteries on my dropships and the longreach rifles in the immortals have the shaped charge rule so can still damage that high armour on a 6+, so those UCM tanks have still got to be carefull.
The reason for the upgrades on the light dropships is once the scouts are dropped off the tritons will have nothing to do, so giving them decent shooting means they can go APC/commander/backfield support unit hunting forcing my opponents AA to have to deal with them rather than my more essential larger dropships, and will hopefully also give the Aries a more free rein. The sirens dropship has missiles as I had points to spend and the tritons look better with missiles
I have no real idea if this will work however the only way to find out is to play some games...

[jaqenhgar]

Ahh, missed the shaped charge rule, all good then!

[jjakaalbinoboy]

Ok folks I've been working on a UCM list, basically guided by what units I like rather than any profound tactics or strategy! :/ Let me what how bad it is....

List 1
Clash: 1494/1500 points
Standard Army

• Standard Roster [1494/1500 pts]
  • Field Command [263 pts]
    • Kodiak: Kodiak, Condor [139 pts]
      
    • Praetorians: 2x Praetorians, Raven A - missile pods [132 pts]
      
  • Armored Formation [423 pts]
    • Sabre Squad: 6x Sabre, Albatross [288 pts]
      
    • ^ Sharing ^ Rapier Squad: 3x Rapier [135 pts]
      
  • Legionnaire Corps [219 pts]
    • Legionnaires: 3x Legionnaires, Condor, 2x Bear [141 pts]
      
    • ^ Sharing ^ Legionnaires: 3x Legionnaires [78 pts]
      
  • Special Ordnance [402 pts]
    • Gladius Squad: 4x Gladius, Albatross [302 pts]
      
    • ^ Sharing ^ Scimitar Squad: 2x Scimitar [100 pts]
      
  • Air Wing [179 pts]
    • Archangel Squad: Archangel [67 pts]
      
    • Seraphim Squad: Seraphim [112 pts]
      

[scoundrel13]

I don't think you need a Condor for the Kodiak, as it is the kind of Commander that hides at the back of the board using Indirect Fire and issuing orders through scouts. Have it drive on, or directly deploy. If you do drive it on, you will need Scouts somewhere in the list, as they can relay the command radius of the Kodiak- which it will need, hiding at the back of the board! If you want no scouts at all, or don't have the points, then actually you may need the Condor to get you physically close enough to yell orders out of the Kodiak window at your tank formations.

What CV is the Kodiak Commander? Judging from the points, I think you may not have paid for one. You need some kind of Command Value as you'll struggle to get any Command Cards off without being espionaged, and you'll only be able to have 1 command card in your hand. You'll also rarely win the Initiative roll, so will be at your opponents mercy of being forced to go first or last. I recommend CV4 or CV5. It's expensive, but worth it. If you're using FFOR army builder, right click on the Kodiak for command upgrade options. CV4 costs 95pts, CV5 costs 140pts.

Praetorians are a great choice, swift insertion in a Raven A, and they can go toe-t0-toe with other CQB specialists.

Ah, the classic UCM armoured brick. These are a solid spine to the army, just remember that the Rapiers don't have to hang around with the Sabres once they're down, as they are separate squads. I would throw this Albatross straight up the middle of the board, drop in the centre, for great AA threat and Sabre target flexibility.

The Legionnaire Corps is a must, nothing else need really be said.

Wow, four Gladius and two Scimitars, that's some serious firepower! The only thing I would say is that you already have a large chunk of points devoted to killing enemy vehicles- the six Sabres. If you're happy to go with the overwhelming ground firepower, that's fine, but I would say at 1500pts that you only really need the 4Gladii/2Scimitar brick (no Sabres), 3 Sabres and 2 Gladii or 2 Scimitars, or just the 6 Sabres (no Gladii or Scimitars). You could use the spare points for something lighter but more flexible, like a Katana squad (lots of E9 shots), something with Flame capacity to support your infantry or extra AA cover.
I've struggled against John's Gladii before, as 2dp and A10 is an absolute bitch to get through. While they battered my skimmers in a straight fight, they weren't able to move and respond quickly to the evolving battle, so I escaped with most of the objectives and no surviving models. Not seen the Scimitars used, but they recently got their MF changed to 1" and E value for main weapon bumped to E11.

For any other force, I'd say that TWO Fast Movers is unnecessary for 1500, but for UCM, you can get away with this, as a large chunk of the UCM command deck involves bumping or supporting your FMs in some way. The Archangel can act both as a dropship sniper for any enemy transports straying out of AA protection, and as Interceptor cover for the heavier Seraphim. The Seraphim itself is a monster at A7, and has the flexibility to smash buildings (Sledgehammer missile is now Demolisher D3+3) and enemy armour. It does lack any AA firepower of its own, and is especially vulnerable to enemy Interceptors, but that's what you take the Archangel for.

Overall, I'd say its a solid win-the-ground-war leaning list, which will smash anything that tries to fight you in a straight fight (PHR, Resistance) but may struggle to deal with rapid movement, redeployment or general avoidance (Shaltari, Scourge). It's also a tad light on AA, with the one Rapier squad and the Archangel, but that comes down to personal preference. With care taken over the health of those Rapiers, this can still work. As a Scourge player, my main aim would be to throw everything at that single Rapier squad in order to gain close air dominance, allowing my Desolator and Reavers to hunt ground assets unimpeded, and my dropships to operate freely (apart from the Archangel).

But hey, that's just me This was longer than I planned! Hope its helpful.

[jjakaalbinoboy]

No thats great feedback thanks Matt. I'd completely missed the officer thing as it hadn't prompted me with an error or anything. I've found and fixed that part now.

I've updated my list but I'm not entirely happy with it now as I wanted more Albatross and Gladius' to be honest.

List 2
Clash: 1496/1500 points
Standard Army

• Standard Roster [1496/1500 pts]
  • Field Command [516 pts]
    • Kodiak: Kodiak(General) [248 pts]
      
    • Praetorians: 2x Praetorians, Raven A(+Missile Pods) [132 pts]
      
    • Praetorian Snipers: 3x Praetorian Snipers, Raven A [136 pts]
      
  • Armored Formation [423 pts]
    • Sabre Squad: 6x Sabre, Albatross [288 pts]
      
    • ^ Sharing ^ Rapier Squad: 3x Rapier [135 pts]
      
  • Legionnaire Corps [219 pts]
    • Legionnaires: 3x Legionnaires, Condor, 2x Bear [141 pts]
      
    • ^ Sharing ^ Legionnaires: 3x Legionnaires [78 pts]
      
  • Special Ordnance [159 pts]
    • Gladius Squad: 2x Gladius, Condor(+Missile Pods) [159 pts]
      
  • Air Wing [179 pts]
    • Archangel Squad: Archangel [67 pts]
      
    • Seraphim Squad: Seraphim [112 pts]
      

[scoundrel13]

Well this is certainly more balanced, but yes, lacking that second Albatross!

It is more flexible, has rock-hard command (putting you on a level playing field with most other 1500 armies), and I like the addition of the Snipers. They can fulfill another AA role with Precision Small Arms fire (Each base has single E7 AA shot at range of 18" countered), and they can decimate enemy infantry that come to the walls, as snipers ignore body and soft cover.

Remember, you won't know for sure how well these lists work until you've tested them a bit for real, so by all means go ahead and create the first list (with a CV value somewhere), as its using the models that you like, and I'm just theorising! You may find you like the way it plays, and just needs small tweaks, editing a squad or two here and there as you go through battles.

With that first list, you have great volume of E10 and E11 hits, which means you can level buildings quickly with concentrated fire, and like I said, nobody will want to go and take on either of those two huge AT bricks, so you can control board space that way.

For what its worth, I have this rough personal aim of trying to collect one squad of every Scourge unit available. This keeps buying and painting interesting, and I plan to rotate units in and out of lists, testing them out in different combinations until I start to find the style that suits me. This will take a while, so my own 1500 lists will probably change every week.

[jjakaalbinoboy]

Yeah I like list 2 generally and can live without a second Albatross (as they are expensive in £££) but it's the Gladius I'd like more of, I'd rather them than Sabres but you have to have an Armoured Formation FFoR tells me.

I like the scout snipers idea dropping from a Raven up field to spot targets for the Kodiak.

I want to play some games with the starter set before I buy anything new. (We'll see how my resolve holds out on that one....) but yeah I'd like at least one of most of the UCM units eventually but once I've got a decent 1500pts force I'd probably want to sort some scenery too.

I also had this idea of using Epic Hydras to represent Rapiers too.