A good piece on Deathstars

[Simian]

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/cal...alker.html

just thought i'd share this with the prevalence of deathstars at the club now...

some of the comments are great too

The only thing you can do is encourage the people that you know with children to help their offspring be good at something where a fair, challenging experience is more important than winning. Then, the next generation won't feel irresistibly compelled to fight their low self esteem by running 8 Waveserpents.

[Embolden]

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/cal...alker.html

just thought i'd share this with the prevalence of deathstars at the club now...

some of the comments are great too

The only thing you can do is encourage the people that you know with children to help their offspring be good at something where a fair, challenging experience is more important than winning. Then, the next generation won't feel irresistibly compelled to fight their low self esteem by running 8 Waveserpents.

I disagree with most of that post... just seems to be having a dig at Deathstars, I love my deathstars, started half way through 5th with my Draigo/Paladin list, then into my Space Wolves/Guard Blob list, then into my Seer Council, Farsight Bomb and now Beastpack... what can I say, I have an addition to challenge of running a Deathstar.

The bit that really gets my back up and puts my nose out, is this:

what's the point? Playing these armies seems incredibly dull to me, as well. I would not gain much sense of satisfaction in winning with a unit that my opponent could not hurt. Where's the challenge?

The challenge is having all your eggs in one basket, it maybe a basket armed to the teeth and ready to smash your face in, but it’s also the challenge of trying to protect the usually vulnerable troops with your uber unit.

I’m loving the fact our club is getting its competitive edge on, makes games a challenge

[Simian]

im on the other side but you know that already, i cant stand deathstars and hate playing against them. You might see them as a challenge but i see them as taking the fun and variety out of the game.

I’m loving the fact our club is getting its competitive edge on, makes games a challenge

its doing the reverse for me, its putting me off 40k. its a shame but the emphasis on bigger/more expensive/new units to win at 40k just makes me want to go play something else. And to be fair thats what im doing mainly at the moment.

the problem is i do enjoy 40k when its more fluffy, more fun (in my opinion) so i want to keep playing but the prevalence of deathstars and the sheer quantity of what i see to be game breaking combinations has put me off.

[Embolden]

im on the other side but you know that already, i cant stand deathstars and hate playing against them. You might see them as a challenge but i see them as taking the fun and variety out of the game.

I’m loving the fact our club is getting its competitive edge on, makes games a challenge

its doing the reverse for me, its putting me off 40k. its a shame but the emphasis on bigger/more expensive/new units to win at 40k just makes me want to go play something else. And to be fair thats what im doing mainly at the moment.

the problem is i do enjoy 40k when its more fluffy, more fun (in my opinion) so i want to keep playing but the prevalence of deathstars and the sheer quantity of what i see to be game breaking combinations has put me off.

Yeah I know your not a fan of the competitive deathstar lists, I'm not sure about taking the variety out the game, I mean there are what 3 of use at the club who are using Deathstars, Myself, Tau/Marines and a Eldar/DEldar, Nick who's trying Marines/Space Wovles and Vince is using Tau/Tau, three/four completely different lists. No different to MSU Eldar, MSU Tau and MSU Marines... imo.

GW is turning the games into a Arms race... and almost a war of wallets... which is shame.

In regards to the quote, thats what I love about this gaming club, there are players who are playing for fun, I mean there is a game next week all about the Cypher, loads of people play for fun in the club.

I don't enjoy the "fluffy games" I've been there, done that for years... for me, it's all about building the best list I can and get enjoyment from building the list and seeing it on the table. Again, thats why I enjoy the hobby and this club.

[Nick1988]

I completely understand the argument both ways! Death stars are not fun to play against when using fluffy armys with cool (but not overpowered) rules as well as themed armys that may look great but are actually pretty weak in comparrison. As ive said before, the thing i love about 40k is list bashing to come up with the most powerful army i can and taking it to competitive tournaments! I think theres a handful of us at the club with the likes of me, Rob, Chris, Vince and big Rob. However theres a lot of other 40k players that arent too! If im completely honest i cant imagine its much fun for some of the guys being tabled without killing a model by the competitive boys so its surely about arranging games based on what you want? I know for example Chris and Ben have arranged a game around the fluff involvinh cypher which sounds like fun!

Not sure what the answer is to keep everyone happy but discussing what sort of game you want to play with your opponent prior is a good start

[Gareth]

Not sure what the answer is to keep everyone happy but discussing what sort of game you want to play with your opponent prior is a good start

Spot on.

I also think knowing the type of player that your asking to play against, is key. This can differ in game systems. Looking at myself, I'm competitive with WFB (if not as awesome as I want,) so anyone asking me top for a game, should expect I'll very trying my hardest. However JJ isn't (particularly on WFB front, where he is currently struggling to get all the rules sorted.)

So should JJ ask me for a game, he should expect a hard time. However the other way round, me asking JJ, I know he's a fluff player, so I should be going in with that mind set. If on the other hand either of us want something from an opponent we are challenging for a game, at their level, then it's important to ask for something different, when doing so.

If I took up 40k, and asked Nick for a game, I would expect a hard list, unless I specifically ask him not to. Then my request is being fully explained prior, in such a case not only would he like to play me, but would he like to play me with a list not on par with what he normally takes. He then has the option to decide if he want that game against opponent, and style, which may not be of preference over a game against someone else, because of the style (given opponent preference is equal.)

[Embolden]

Not sure what the answer is to keep everyone happy but discussing what sort of game you want to play with your opponent prior is a good start

Boom! Perfectly summed up

No perfect answer and just ask

[manrogue]

Lol, I can see both sides.

Will drop my thoughts later when not on my phone. :p

[jaqenhgar]

I like both highly competitive and more 'fun' games. I like playing with an army that I enjoy using because i like the fluff and coming up with the hardest list, and also trying different combos out which is half the fun. It's why I am still playing dark angels when they are not a top tier codex, i just like 'em! I have a necron force as well which plays very differently but are definitely a secondary army to the dark angels.

I enjoy facing the hard lists with deathstars in them, even if i lose to them most of the time, because I know I must be able to beat them if i can just figure out how and what their weaknesses are. If I was only playing those lists I would probably start finding the game less interesting because the games play a certain way to other games, but fortunately there are lots of different people with different armies to play against. Having said that, I do groan inwardly when i see certain lists (waveserpent spam or massed heldrakes being the main culprits), but maybe that's because it's a really bad match up for my massed bikes!

I'm keen to play more scenario driven games at the club, I love the idea of linking three or four battles together. I really want to explore a tournament or campaign like the highlander one that will be at War of the roses, with limited force organisation charts etc to encourage balanced play. However, there's a place for the deathstar list as well - it's good tournament practice for one thing - and the bigger they are, the harder they fall (although they tend to fall less often). To end with another cliche - variety is the spice of life!

[Simian]

Not sure what the answer is to keep everyone happy but discussing what sort of game you want to play with your opponent prior is a good start

No argument from me on that one, summed up perfectly.

and youre right there is a challenge of playing against a deathstar its just not one im going to be looking for very often (if at all) things like this combined force against cypher interest me more. (im not a very competitive person...)

theres plenty of room for everything at the club and the main reason i keep coming, ijust thought the piece was quite good and raised a few points i found myself agreeing with