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+--- Thread: Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons (/showthread.php?tid=1320)
Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons - The Count - 26-01-2013
Following on from mid sized Robs comments on Necrons - I have been looking at how to beat Necrons and CD's wihout using them, as is my want.
OK so I was watching crap on TV and doing some math hammer, following on from what me and Rob did at Callie.
4 x Night Scythes with required troops = 660
4 x Vendettas = 580
3 x Storm Ravens = 600 - I have worked out that assault cannons are ever so slightly better than las cannons, even versus Vendettas
I wont bore you with the saddo maths, but the results are interesting. (I included all the Tesla 6's etc.)
On average
4 x Necron flyers do 3 x penetrating hits and 3 x glancing hits on AV12
4 x Vendettas do 9 AP2 pens and 1 1/2 glances v Scythes
4 x Vendettas do 6 AP2 hits and 1 1/2 glances versus Storm Ravens
3 x Storm Ravens do 8 assorted pens and 2 glances v Scythes
3 x Storm Ravens do 4 1/3 assorted pens and 3 1/2 glances v Vendettas
The main messages are:
whichever flyer force goes first wins
3 Vendettas will run it close versus 4 scythes - you need 4.
3 Ravens could out shoot 3 Vendettas
Overall however Vendettas and Raven both nail the same points value of Scythes.
The key point is that with a comms relay Necron flyers can be nailed. the troops go back into reserve and have to walk on, so put objectives in the middle of the table - job done!
Now what about then Wraiths......
RE: Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons - jaqenhgar - 26-01-2013
Interesting. The difference is that the Necron Flyers carry some troop choices for the points, whereas the other two don't so it's very efficient for the Necrons.
You can also try and not take many vehicles/flyers (if any) and spend 600pts on more troops, then the flyers have about 3 turns trying to shoot the crap out of you while you ignore them and focus on the opponents ground troops. 600pts is a massive chunk from any list and i would be wary spending that much on flyers. Would like to see how much damage those flyers could do to troops, say T3/T4 with saves varying from 5+ to 2+ or assuming cover. Quite a lot of maths that though, but might give it a bash at some point unless someone else wants a go. Vendettas are rubbish against ground troops esp in cover for the amount of points you spend on them....
The DA list I am itching to try has a couple of Rhinos (which of course will be dead pretty quick but if I get first turn allow me to get 18" up the table with some cover) but no other vehicles, and a 10 man dev squad with 4ml with flakk, so even if the opponent brings no flyers they are still useful (plus cheap prescience librarian).
RE: Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons - The Count - 26-01-2013
You are entirely correct. In my opinion there are two directions to go with flyers - none or lots. I have not used a flyer in 6th ed yet, which is why I was thinking of doing it for a try at B Brum. My Nids took on 6 Vendettas and had shot all 6 down by turn 3, so you dont need flyers to beat flyers for sure.
With regards to the Necrons, the 100% main priority is the Wraiths.
18 Wraiths have 36 wounds with s 3+ svae, taking 108 wounds to kill below S8, thats 216 S4 hits. So a combination of S4 shhoting and melle is the way forward - strength in numbers.
The barges have to be the last target to aim at.
With regards to the flyers again, remember that the troops go back into reserve if they are destroyed, so as long as all the objectives you place are in the centre of the board you can effectively ignore almost all ther Necron troop.
Also remember B Brum is win/lose - no real margins. - So 1 objectice will win you the game if your opponent has no troops left.
RE: Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons - Embolden - 26-01-2013
Interesting, shows that what we did at cale was pretty close to the mark!
So I've had 2 playtest games this morning and I came to the same conclusion take multiple flyers or none I took one and it died horribly! Twice. Game 3 I dropped the vendetta for a dev squad and felt the improvement immediately.
RE: Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons - Sincilbanks - 26-01-2013
Yep its why im taking 2 ravens. These can fire at multiple targets so with some luck I can hit and down 3 targets. I agree with Matt though go first with your flyers is going to get them shot down. my DC Dread is specifically there to target wraiths and large infantry blobs
RE: Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons - manrogue - 26-01-2013
Your cost is off on vendetta's, 4 is 520 points(130 each). :p
RE: Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons - The Count - 26-01-2013
OK I was including bolters but yeah, a few points out. I am tempted to try 3 or 4 at BB just for interest. I have two now at 25 quid a pop. Half way there!
RE: Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons - manrogue - 26-01-2013
Personally, think Bolters are a waste in sixth as you can only fire 1 while zooming. So i never bother. I load my 3 with Vets and use them to either drop on key objectives, destroy major threats or get line breaker. I tried 4 and thought it was bit of overkill, so think i would only use 3 in future. I think a lot depends on your army set up, i camp a lot with lots of heavy weapons and artillery, so the 3 Vendetta's with Vets are the only manoeuvrability i have in my army.
RE: Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons - GoNecrons - 26-01-2013
Your efforts are futile. We are simply the master race. It will be easier and quicker for all if you just bowed your heads and bend your knees to your new rulers.....
RE: Discussion on Flyers and How to beat Necrons - The Count - 27-01-2013
OK so I might try this list at B Brum just to see what happens
Blood Angels and Grey Knights
Librarian in terminator armour with power axe, storm shield, shield of sanguinius and another spell
5 x assault marines with melta and sgt with melta bombs
10 x assault marines with melta and sgt with melta bombs
3 x Storm Ravens with multi melta and assault cannon
Coteaz
10 Grey knights with 2 psy cannons
Aegis defence line and comms relay
3 henchmen including banisher
So shield is cast in the enemy shooting phase and has been faq'd to effect vehicles even allies of convenience. So any ravens that come on bunch within 6@ of each other and all get a 5+ invul save without the need to jink, which is nice.
each Raven has troops in
Might be worth a try!
No idea how I would beat a horde orc though!